Able to Care

In Part 2 of Andy Baker’s conversation with Baroness Ruth Lister, the discussion turns to the wider cost of allowing child poverty to continue and the practical role schools, services, communities and policymakers can play.
Ruth explains why reducing child poverty should be viewed as preventative investment rather than simply an expense. Poverty can affect children’s health, educational opportunities and future employment, while also increasing pressure on schools, local authorities, social care and the NHS.
The episode also explores how schools may unintentionally deepen shame, the importance of poverty-proofing the school day, and the experiences of migrant families who have no recourse to public funds. Ruth discusses why poverty is not only about money but also dignity, rights, relationships and the way people are treated.
This conversation is especially valuable for teachers, carers, parents, social workers and professionals who want to provide support without increasing stigma or making families feel blamed for circumstances beyond their control.
In This Episode
Andy and Ruth explore:
The financial and social cost of failing to reduce child poverty
Why spending on children can be understood as preventative investment
How poverty affects health, education and future opportunities
Ways schools can avoid unintentionally shaming or excluding children
The importance of poverty-aware uniform, trip and meal policies
What “no recourse to public funds” means for migrant families
Why dignity and human rights matter alongside household income
How professionals can involve people with lived experience in training and service design
Where struggling parents may be able to seek practical support
What individuals can do to advocate for change
Three Key Messages
1. Failing to tackle child poverty has a significant long-term cost.Poverty can contribute to poorer health, reduced educational achievement and greater pressure on public services. Early financial support can therefore be understood as prevention and investment.
2. Schools and services can either reduce or deepen shame.Uniform rules, school trips, free-meal systems and requests for materials should be designed so that children are not publicly identified, punished or excluded because of their family income.
3. People experiencing poverty deserve support without judgement.Poverty is not only a shortage of money. It is also experienced through stigma, disrespect, powerlessness and the feeling of being treated as less worthy than other people.
Why Listen to This Episode?
Listen if you:
Work in a school and want to make policies more poverty-aware
Support children who lack uniforms, food, equipment or access to activities
Work with migrant or refugee families who cannot access mainstream benefits
Want to understand the long-term social cost of child poverty
Are helping families navigate Universal Credit, food banks or local support
Want to challenge stigma without turning the discussion into party-political conflict
Believe services should be shaped by dignity, rights and lived experience
Feel powerless about child poverty and want practical actions to take
The episode offers both a national policy perspective and practical ideas that can be applied in schools, services and everyday interactions.
Timestamps / Chapters
00:00 - Universal Credit is not only for unemployed familiesWhy working parents may still qualify for financial support.
00:21 - The real cost of failing to tackle child povertyThe long-term effects on health, education, employment and public services.
03:22 - What schools can stop doingHow uniform policies, trips and classroom requirements can unintentionally increase shame.
04:40 - Poverty-proofing the school dayCreating inclusive approaches to free school meals, equipment and participation.
06:28 - Practical support through schools and community servicesLaundry facilities and other forms of help for families in temporary accommodation.
06:51 - What no recourse to public funds meansWhy some migrant families cannot access social security or social housing.
10:41 - Poverty, dignity and human rightsWhy the experience of being dehumanised can feel as damaging as the material hardship itself.
14:23 - Understanding stigma and discriminationHow language and assumptions shape the way families are treated.
15:37 - Practical advice for parents who are strugglingBenefits checks, Citizens Advice, food banks and asking for support without shame.
18:39 - Reasons for hope and actionContacting representatives, joining local organisations and challenging poverty-related prejudice.
20:53 - Closing reflectionsThe importance of empathy and recognising that people experiencing poverty are not a separate group.
Resources Mentioned
Ruth Lister’s Report - The Good Society Starts Small
https://www.compassonline.org.uk/publications/the-good-society-starts-small/
Ruth Lister’s Book - Poverty, Second Edition
https://www.wiley.com/en-gb/Poverty%2C+2nd+Edition-p-9780745645971
Ruth Lister - Loughborough University
https://www.lboro.ac.uk/subjects/social-policy-studies/staff/honorary/ruth-lister/
Contact Ruth Lister
listerr@parliament.uk
Citizens Advice
Support with Universal Credit, benefits entitlement, housing, debt and other financial concerns.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
No Recourse to Public Funds Collective Partnership
The guest information highlights partnership work involving organisations supporting migrants and migrant families affected by immigration-status and public-funds restrictions:
Praxis
Migration Exchange
Citizens UK
Praxis: https://www.praxis.org.uk/Migration Exchange: https://migrationexchange.org.uk/Citizens UK: https://www.citizensuk.org/
Child Poverty Action Group
Information, research and campaigning relating to child poverty and family support.
https://cpag.org.uk/
Local Support
Families may also be able to seek help through:
Local welfare-rights organisations
Food banks and community pantries
Schools and family-support teams
Local councils
Housing and migrant-support charities
Community and faith organisations
Practical Ideas for Schools and Services
Avoid sending children home because their family cannot afford the correct uniform
Review whether trips and activities create visible differences between children
Make free-school-meal systems as discreet and universal as possible
Provide ingredients, equipment and materials rather than assuming every family can supply them
Ask what is preventing attendance before treating absence as a lack of commitment
Include people with lived experience of poverty in staff training
Use respectful, non-stigmatising language in policies and conversations
Ensure families know where they can receive confidential advice
About Ruth Lister
Baroness Ruth Lister is Emeritus Professor of Social Policy at Loughborough University. Her work explores poverty, citizenship, gender, inequality and social justice.
A central theme of her work is that poverty should not be understood through income alone. It must also be examined through dignity, participation, voice, rights and the social relationships that shape how people are treated.
Follow Able to Care
Podcast website:https://able-training.co.uk/podcast
LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/able-training-ltd-/
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If this episode helps you understand child poverty differently, please share it with a teacher, caregiver, parent, social worker or policymaker who may benefit from the conversation.

Child poverty is not only about hunger or homelessness. It can mean a child missing school because they do not have the right uniform, being unable to join clubs or activities, feeling ashamed to invite friends home, or being excluded from the everyday experiences their classmates take for granted.
In Part 1 of this conversation, Andy Baker speaks with Baroness Ruth Lister about the reality of child poverty in the UK and the impact it has on children’s education, identity, relationships and wellbeing. Ruth challenges common assumptions about poverty and explains why most children living in poverty have at least one parent in paid employment.
This episode will be especially relevant to teachers, caregivers, parents, support workers and anyone working with children and families. It offers a clearer understanding of how financial hardship can sit underneath attendance difficulties, social withdrawal, unmet practical needs and behaviour that may otherwise be judged too quickly.
In This Episode
Andy and Ruth explore:
What child poverty means beyond the official statistics
How poverty affects children’s confidence, identity and ability to belong
Why school attendance can be affected by uniform costs, caring responsibilities and family circumstances
The scale and depth of child poverty in the UK
Why paid employment is not a guaranteed route out of poverty
The impact of housing costs and private rents
The role of childcare, flexible work and social security
The difference between the two-child limit and the benefit cap
Why poverty should be understood through children’s rights and wellbeing
Three Key Messages
1. Child poverty affects participation as well as basic needs.Children may have food and shelter but still be excluded from friendships, school activities, trips, clubs and the possessions that help them feel they belong.
2. Most children in poverty are not living in workless households.Low wages, high rents, childcare costs and insecure or inflexible employment mean that paid work does not always provide enough income for a family.
3. Policies aimed at parents are ultimately experienced by children.Whatever judgement people make about adult decisions, children have no control over their family’s circumstances and should not carry the consequences through hunger, exclusion or shame.
Why Listen to This Episode?
Listen if you:
Work with children whose attendance or engagement is becoming a concern
Support families struggling with food, clothing, housing or childcare costs
Want to understand the difference between poverty and worklessness
Have heard debates about the two-child limit or benefit cap but are unsure how they affect families
Want to make your school, care service or community more poverty-aware
Are a parent who is working but still struggling financially
Want to respond to families with greater empathy and less judgement
For educators and caregivers, the conversation offers an important reminder to ask what may be happening around a child before treating absence, unsuitable clothing, withdrawal or non-participation as a lack of effort.
Timestamps / Chapters
00:00 - What child poverty really meansWhy poverty includes hunger, inadequate clothing, social exclusion and children being unable to enjoy their childhood.
01:59 - School attendance, uniforms and hidden hardshipWhy a child may be absent for reasons that are not immediately visible to the school.
03:22 - Poverty, belonging and the cost of joining inHow electronics, activities, clothing and friendships affect children’s emerging identity.
04:57 - How many UK children are living in poverty?Understanding the scale of child poverty and the meaning of deep poverty.
06:18 - How poverty is officially measuredIncome, housing costs and why measuring poverty allows comparison over time.
07:54 - The reality of in-work povertyWhy most children in poverty live in a household where at least one parent works.
10:23 - Why housing costs matter so muchPrivate rents, housing support and families being pushed below the poverty line.
12:01 - The main drivers of child povertyHousing costs, social-security reductions and the challenge of combining work with childcare.
14:34 - The Good Society Starts SmallRedistribution, rights, political resolve and policies that could reduce child poverty.
17:20 - The two-child limit and the benefit capWhy these are separate policies and how each affects family income.
23:32 - Children should not be punished for circumstances outside their controlThe effect of policy choices on every child in a household.
25:00 - Universal Credit and working familiesWhy people in employment may still qualify for financial support.
Resources Mentioned
The Good Society Starts Small
A report by Baroness Ruth Lister examining child poverty through redistribution, rights and political resolve.
https://www.compassonline.org.uk/publications/the-good-society-starts-small/
Poverty, Second Edition
Ruth Lister’s book explores poverty as both a material condition and a lived social experience involving dignity, voice, respect and citizenship.
https://www.wiley.com/en-gb/Poverty%2C+2nd+Edition-p-9780745645971
Ruth Lister - Loughborough University
https://www.lboro.ac.uk/subjects/social-policy-studies/staff/honorary/ruth-lister/
Contact Ruth Lister
listerr@parliament.uk
Support and Benefits Advice
People who are working may still be eligible for Universal Credit or other support. Citizens Advice and local welfare-rights organisations may be able to help families check what they are entitled to receive.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
About Ruth Lister
Baroness Ruth Lister is Emeritus Professor of Social Policy at Loughborough University and a leading writer and researcher on poverty, inequality, citizenship and social justice.
She previously worked for the Child Poverty Action Group and has spent decades examining both the economic reality of poverty and the way people experiencing poverty are treated, represented and heard.
Follow Able to Care
Podcast website:https://able-training.co.uk/podcast
LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/able-training-ltd-/
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/AbleTraining
TikTok:https://www.tiktok.com/@abletocarepodcast
YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@abletocarepodcast
Part 2 continues next Tuesday, exploring the long-term cost of child poverty, poverty-aware schools, migrant families, dignity and practical ways to support parents experiencing hardship.

In Part 2 of this conversation, dementia engagement specialist Florence Tyloo explores how caregivers can adapt activities as a person’s abilities, visual processing and communication change.
Florence challenges the assumption that someone has lost interest simply because they do not immediately participate. The problem may be that they cannot see the equipment, understand the instructions or complete the activity in the way it has been presented.
Andy and Florence discuss how to create achievable challenges, protect a person’s self-esteem and use family knowledge to uncover meaningful roles and interests. They also examine visual-field changes in dementia, the N.U.T.S. framework for reducing stress and why presence matters more than completing an activity correctly.
This episode offers practical ideas for professional carers, activity coordinators, family caregivers and anyone who wants to create more person-centred dementia activities.
In This Episode
Florence explains how she begins with an achievable version of an activity and then gradually increases the challenge. This allows the person to experience early success without removing every opportunity for growth or mastery.
She explores why asking, “What activities are good for dementia?” can lead caregivers in the wrong direction. A better question is:
“What activity is meaningful, achievable and enjoyable for this particular person today?”
Florence also describes how families can help carers understand a person’s history, identity and former roles. Examples include asking a former teacher to help with a dictation exercise or inviting a person who enjoyed reading to read aloud for others.
The episode also examines visual-field changes, contrast and the importance of placing objects where the person can actually see them.
Three Key Messages
1. Adapt the activity before assuming the person cannot participate.Changes in vision, processing, movement or communication may require a different presentation, position or level of challenge.
2. A person’s history provides clues, not restrictions.Past interests can inspire meaningful engagement, but people living with dementia should still be offered new experiences and opportunities.
3. The quality of the moment matters more than completing the task.An activity does not need to be done perfectly to create joy, confidence, connection or a sense of achievement.
Chapters
00:00 - Adapting activities as abilities changeBeginning with success and gradually increasing the challenge.
03:59 - What activities are good for dementia?Why the activity must be matched to the individual rather than the diagnosis.
06:42 - When familiar activities become emotionally difficultHow a former talent can sometimes highlight loss instead of creating enjoyment.
09:08 - How families can help identify meaningful activitiesUsing personal history, interests, routines and former roles.
10:58 - A former parent helping with schoolwork againHow a dictation activity created purpose, presence and connection.
13:13 - Using meaningful roles to reduce repeated questionsMoving from “What do I do?” towards an activity that feels familiar and useful.
16:23 - Understanding visual changes in dementiaWhy a person may not see a chair, drink, basketball hoop or object placed beside them.
19:31 - Adapting the environment rather than blaming the personMaking engagement possible by changing positioning, contrast and presentation.
21:42 - Revisiting the N.U.T.S. frameworkHow caregivers can reduce novelty, unpredictability, threats to the ego and loss of control.
23:37 - Stress is based on perception, not objective realityWhy a familiar situation may still feel new or unpredictable to the person.
27:50 - Offering greater choice and controlUsing small decisions to reduce resistance and protect autonomy.
29:51 - Letting go of getting the activity rightWhy caregivers need to acknowledge challenge without treating it as personal failure.
31:54 - Presence, play and imperfect activitiesFinding enjoyment without requiring the person to follow every rule.
34:05 - One simple activity to try this weekUsing familiar music, balloons or an aiming game to invite connection.
36:02 - Florence’s workshops and dementia resourcesWhere to find visual-change training, N.U.T.S. workshops and free dementia talks.
Why Listen to This Episode?
Listen if you:
Need practical ideas for adapting dementia activities
Want to understand visual-processing and visual-field changes
Support someone who frequently refuses or disengages from activities
Are worried about making an activity too difficult or too childish
Want to use family knowledge more effectively in care planning
Need strategies for giving someone greater autonomy and control
Work with people experiencing distressed behaviour
Want engagement to become part of everyday dementia care
The conversation will help you replace “They cannot do it” or “They are not interested” with more useful questions:
Can the person see it?
Does the instruction make sense?
Is the activity threatening their confidence?
Have they been given genuine control?
Could the activity be presented differently?
Is this the right activity for this person today?
Resources Mentioned
Dementia Partnered Care
Florence Tyloo offers dementia-engagement support, training and consultancy for caregivers, families and organisations.
Website:https://www.dementia-partnered-care.co.uk
Email:info@dementia-partnered-care.co.uk
Available support includes:
Visual Changes in Dementia workshop
Understanding Stress using the N.U.T.S. framework
Free 30-minute dementia talks
Practical dementia-engagement guidance
Videos demonstrating how activities can be adapted across different stages of dementia
Florence Tyloo on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/florence-tyloo-msc-a20519138
Dementia Partnered Care on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61573984471347
N.U.T.S. Stress Framework
Florence’s training explores four common ingredients of psychological stress:
Novelty
Unpredictability
Threat to the ego
Low sense of control
This framework can help caregivers understand both their own stress and the distress experienced by someone living with dementia.
Visual Changes in Dementia
Florence discusses how changes to visual fields, contrast sensitivity and visual processing may affect:
Sitting safely in a chair
Finding food and drink
Seeing objects placed to the side
Participating in games
Navigating the environment
Understanding what a caregiver is asking
The Adaptive Caregiver Model
The Adaptive Caregiver Model: Walking With, Not Ahead - A Practical Guide to Dementia Care That Adapts to the Person, Not the Diagnosis
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adaptive-Caregiver-Model-Practical-Diagnosis/dp/1918283060
The model explores how caregivers can adapt their role and approach around the needs, abilities and lived reality of the individual.
About the Guest
Florence Tyloo is a dementia engagement specialist based in Exeter. She studied psychology in Switzerland and has worked with people living with dementia across Switzerland, the United States and the United Kingdom.
Her professional practice is also shaped by family experience. Florence grew up close to her great-grandmother, who lived with Alzheimer’s disease, and her grandmother now lives with frontotemporal dementia.
Florence works closely with families to create meaningful engagement that maintains connection, reduces stress and helps people living with dementia retain purpose, choice and dignity.
About the Able to Care Podcast
The Able to Care Podcast supports paid and unpaid caregivers, teachers and parents to better understand themselves, understand those they support and navigate the care and education systems.
Podcast website:https://able-training.co.uk/podcast
Follow Able
LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/able-training-ltd-/
TikTok:https://www.tiktok.com/@abletocarepodcast
YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@abletocarepodcast
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/AbleTraining
If this episode gives you a useful dementia-care idea, please follow the podcast and share it with a caregiver, activity coordinator, family member or colleague who may benefit.

Activities in dementia care should be about far more than filling time. In the first part of this conversation, Andy Baker speaks with dementia engagement specialist Florence Tyloo about how meaningful activities can preserve abilities, reduce psychological stress and help people living with dementia continue to feel capable, valued and connected.
Florence draws on her professional experience in Switzerland, the United States and the United Kingdom, alongside her family experience of dementia. She explains how familiar music, movement, conversation, games and everyday care tasks can become opportunities for connection.
This episode will be particularly valuable for professional carers, unpaid family caregivers, activity coordinators and anyone trying to maintain a relationship with someone whose communication or cognitive abilities are changing.
In This Episode
Florence explains why activities such as bingo can provide cognitive stimulation when they are adapted around the person’s abilities, rather than simply being used to keep people occupied.
She introduces the N.U.T.S. framework for understanding psychological stress:
N - Novelty
U - Unpredictability
T - Threat to the ego
S - Low sense of control
Florence and Andy also explore how music, singing, movement and familiar helping roles can reduce stress without telling someone simply to “calm down”.
The conversation considers the different dementia-care lessons Florence has taken from working in Switzerland, the United States and the United Kingdom, including relationship-led personal care, individualised activities and protecting a person’s right to make decisions involving risk.
Three Key Messages
1. Meaningful activity is not simply entertainment.A carefully adapted activity can stimulate memory, attention, movement, communication and decision-making while helping the person feel useful and capable.
2. Stress affects everyone involved in dementia care.Novelty, unpredictability, threats to self-esteem and a loss of control can increase distress for both the person living with dementia and their caregiver.
3. Connection does not depend upon conversation.Music, movement, balloons, touch, shared laughter and simply spending time together can create valuable moments even when verbal communication becomes difficult.
Chapters
00:00 - What meaningful dementia activities really areWhy engagement should go beyond bingo, colouring and keeping someone busy.
02:14 - Using existing abilities instead of focusing on lossesHow activities can involve reading, attention, coordination and helping others.
03:35 - Understanding stress through the N.U.T.S. frameworkNovelty, unpredictability, threat to the ego and a low sense of control.
05:53 - How movement and singing can lower stressUsing physical activity, breathing and familiar music to support regulation.
11:14 - What different countries taught Florence about dementia careLessons from Switzerland, the United States and the United Kingdom.
13:49 - Making engagement part of everyday careWhy getting dressed, washing and moving between rooms can all become opportunities for connection.
18:21 - Protecting choice, autonomy and positive risk-takingSupporting people living with dementia to continue making decisions.
20:10 - Rebuilding connection when dementia changes communicationWhy caregivers must also acknowledge their own emotions and limitations.
22:54 - Activities as a bridge to the personUsing balloons, basketball, touch and shared experiences when conversation becomes difficult.
26:03 - Creating moments rather than expecting memoriesWhy positive emotional and physical effects can remain even when an event is forgotten.
28:56 - Recognising when an activity is increasing stressReading body language, frustration, withdrawal and changes in engagement.
Why Listen to This Episode?
Listen if you:
Struggle to know how to connect with someone living with dementia
Want practical dementia activity ideas that are genuinely person-centred
Support someone who no longer communicates in the way they once did
Need help recognising when an activity is supportive or overwhelming
Want to understand how stress influences dementia-related distress
Work in a care home, day service, hospital or community-care setting
Are an unpaid caregiver trying to create more positive moments at home
This episode offers a compassionate reminder that successful engagement is not measured by completing an activity perfectly. What matters is whether the person experiences safety, dignity, purpose and connection.
Resources Mentioned
Dementia Partnered Care
Florence Tyloo provides dementia engagement support, consultancy and practical workshops for professional and family caregivers.
Website:https://www.dementia-partnered-care.co.uk
Email:info@dementia-partnered-care.co.uk
Florence offers:
Workshops on visual changes associated with dementia
Training using the N.U.T.S. stress framework
Free 30-minute dementia talks
Practical dementia-engagement guidance
Videos demonstrating adapted activities, including basketball across different stages of dementia
Florence Tyloo on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/florence-tyloo-msc-a20519138
Dementia Partnered Care on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61573984471347
Positive Approach to Care
Florence refers to the work of Teepa Snow and the Positive Approach to Care, which supports practical, compassionate and ability-focused dementia care.
N.U.T.S. Stress Framework
The framework discussed by Florence is based on the work of neuroscientist Sonia Lupien and the Centre for Studies on Human Stress:
Novelty
Unpredictability
Threat to the ego
Low sense of control
The Adaptive Caregiver Model
The Adaptive Caregiver Model: Walking With, Not Ahead - A Practical Guide to Dementia Care That Adapts to the Person, Not the Diagnosis
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adaptive-Caregiver-Model-Practical-Diagnosis/dp/1918283060
About the Guest
Florence Tyloo is a dementia engagement specialist based in Exeter. She studied psychology in Switzerland and has supported people living with dementia in Switzerland, the United States and the United Kingdom.
Alongside her professional experience, Florence grew up close to her great-grandmother, who lived with Alzheimer’s disease. Her grandmother now lives with frontotemporal dementia in the same care home.
Florence’s work focuses on helping caregivers use meaningful activities to maintain connection, reduce stress, empower the person and create positive moments throughout the dementia journey.
About the Able to Care Podcast
The Able to Care Podcast supports paid and unpaid caregivers, teachers and parents to understand themselves, better understand those they support and navigate the care and education systems.
Podcast website:https://able-training.co.uk/podcast
Follow Able
LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/able-training-ltd-/
TikTok:https://www.tiktok.com/@abletocarepodcast
YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@abletocarepodcast
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/AbleTraining
If this conversation helps you think differently about dementia activities and meaningful engagement, please follow the podcast and share the episode with a caregiver, family member or colleague who may benefit.

In Part 2 of this conversation, Andy Baker continues with Ethan St Pierre, Dr Alice Loving and Azariah Hope to explore what happens when parents and families are watched, assessed and misunderstood by the very systems meant to help them. This episode looks at the impact of labels such as addict, personality disorder or non-compliant, and asks what parents really need in order to feel safe enough to engage. It also digs into parenting after trauma, what support actually helps, why honesty and consistency matter, and how connection before correction should apply not only to children, but to the adults caring for them too. For teachers, caregivers, social workers and parents, this is a powerful discussion about accountability, compassion, system change and the possibility of breaking intergenerational cycles.
Why listen to this episode?This episode is essential listening for anyone working in or around children’s social care, trauma-informed parenting, foster care or family support. It highlights what shuts parents down, what helps them stay engaged, and why the quality of the relationship with professionals can change everything. It is also a moving reminder that healing is possible, but only when support is honest, human and strong enough to hold complexity over time.
Three key messages:
Labels can sometimes offer context, but they can also leave people feeling defeated, misunderstood and written off before real support has even begun.
Parents are far more likely to engage when professionals lead with honesty, compassion, consistency and a genuine wish to understand, not simply assess.
Breaking cycles of trauma and harm takes time, safe relationships, accountability and practical support - not just surveillance, plans and pressure.
Timestamps / chapters:00:00 - Ethan on labels, addiction, ADHD and how language shapes recovery04:49 - Azariah on diagnosis, identity and why labels can become a prison11:28 - Parenting while being watched, assessed and misunderstood24:55 - What helps parents feel safe enough to engage with services38:23 - Connection before correction for parents as well as children45:18 - Love, trust, honesty and why systems need to change48:06 - Hopeful Disrupter event and closing reflections
Resources mentioned / relevant links:Hopeful Disrupter event, London, 5 June - details shared during the episode.
Ethan St PierreEmail: ethanshanestpierre@gmail.com
Dr Alice LovingWebsite: https://nurturingnaturecic.org/Event: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-voice-at-the-table-learning-from-lived-experience-tickets-1985054684999Email: draliceloving@gmail.com
Azariah HopeLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/azariah-hope-6b90551b0/Website: https://www.futuresrerooted.co.uk/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_azariahhope_/Email: azariahhope@futuresrerooted.co.uk
Able to Care / Able TrainingPodcast: https://able-training.co.uk/podcastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/able-training-ltd-/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/AbleTrainingTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@abletocarepodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@abletocarepodcast
Guest background:Ethan St Pierre brings direct lived experience, alongside his work as a trainer and public speaker.Dr Alice Loving is a Family Intervention Specialist with expertise in attachment, trauma, parenting and child protection.Azariah Hope is Director of Futures Rerooted and brings direct lived experience of care, trauma, motherhood and long-term social work involvement, alongside consultancy and training work.

In Part 1 of this powerful two-part conversation, Andy Baker is joined by Ethan St Pierre, Dr Alice Loving and Azariah Hope to unpack what people most often get wrong about trauma, behaviour and labels. This episode explores why trauma is not always visible, why it should not be reduced to a single event, and how terms like attention seeking, manipulative, aggressive or perpetrator can block curiosity and shut down healing. For caregivers, teachers, parents and professionals, this is a thoughtful, honest discussion about fear, survival, identity and the danger of mistaking coping strategies for character flaws. If you support children, families or adults who have lived through adversity, this episode offers a more compassionate lens for understanding what behaviour might really be communicating.
Why listen to this episode?If you work with children, parents or families affected by trauma, this episode will help you slow down your assumptions and look beneath the surface. You will hear lived experience and professional insight side by side, including why trauma is often misread, why labels can become harmful, and how fear can sit underneath behaviours that services often judge too quickly. It is especially relevant for anyone in children’s social care, education, foster care, therapeutic support or parenting.
Three key messages:**
Trauma is not always obvious, and it is often the lasting impact - not just the event itself - that shapes daily life, relationships and behaviour.
Labels such as attention seeking, manipulative or aggressive can stop adults getting curious about what fear, stress or unmet need may be sitting underneath.
Children and parents need spaces where behaviour is understood as communication, not just judged as risk, defiance or character failure.
Timestamps / chapters:00:00 - Welcome and first reflections on what people get wrong about trauma01:48 - Ethan on trauma, pain and post-traumatic growth04:12 - Alice on trauma, impact and intergenerational harm06:36 - Why trauma is not defined only by the event07:59 - Hyperarousal, hypoarousal and how fear shows up in parents16:12 - When behaviour gets labelled aggressive, manipulative or attention seeking17:01 - Azariah on why labels can block understanding19:20 - Labels, diagnosis and the damage done when people feel written off42:46 - End of Part 1
Resources mentioned / relevant links:Hopeful Disrupter event, London, 5 June - details shared during the episode.
Ethan St PierreEmail: ethanshanestpierre@gmail.com
Dr Alice LovingWebsite: https://nurturingnaturecic.org/Event: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-voice-at-the-table-learning-from-lived-experience-tickets-1985054684999Email: draliceloving@gmail.com
Azariah HopeLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/azariah-hope-6b90551b0/Website: https://www.futuresrerooted.co.uk/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_azariahhope_/Email: azariahhope@futuresrerooted.co.uk
Able to Care / Able TrainingPodcast: https://able-training.co.uk/podcastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/able-training-ltd-/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/AbleTrainingTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@abletocarepodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@abletocarepodcast
Guest background:Ethan St Pierre brings direct lived experience, alongside his work as a trainer and public speaker.Dr Alice Loving is a Family Intervention Specialist with deep expertise in attachment, trauma, parenting and child protection.Azariah Hope brings direct lived experience of trauma, care, motherhood and social work involvement, and now works through Futures Rerooted to bridge gaps between communities and professionals.

In this solo episode, Andy Baker explores one of the most common and emotionally loaded challenges in adult care, dementia support, residential services and home care: refusal. Too often, refusal is framed as non-compliance, defiance or “being difficult”. But what if refusal is actually communication? What if the behaviour is not about aggression, but about fear, vulnerability, pain, sensory overload, loss of control or a threat to dignity?
This episode is especially relevant for paid and unpaid caregivers, support workers, care staff, parents and educators who want to better understand the people they support rather than simply control behaviour. Andy breaks down how personal care can feel threatening, why task-focused approaches can make things worse, and how a calmer, more relational response can reduce distress, protect trust and improve cooperation over time. He also introduces a practical framework - the 6 Cs - to help carers think more clearly in the moment and respond with more empathy, consistency and skill.
Why listen to this episode?
If you support someone who resists help, becomes distressed during care, or reacts strongly to tasks like washing, dressing, medication or personal support, this episode will help you:
understand why refusal is often communication, not simple defiance
reduce distress without power struggles or force
protect dignity, trust and emotional safety during care tasks
reflect more effectively on what is really driving resistance
use the 6 Cs to improve care planning, consistency and outcomes
Three key messages
Refusal is communication, not just non-compliance.When someone resists care, there is usually a reason underneath it - fear, pain, shame, confusion, sensory discomfort, trauma, autonomy or distress.
If you force the task, you may lose trust.You might get the immediate outcome, but at the cost of dignity, safety and future cooperation.
Better care starts with curiosity, not control.The 6 Cs - comfort, consistency, connection, choice, competency and challenge - offer a practical way to understand what is driving the refusal and respond more effectively.
Timestamps / Chapters
00:00 - Refusal is communication, not just non-complianceWhy forcing a task may win the moment but damage trust, dignity and future cooperation.
00:30 - The scenario: when personal care turns into an incidentA support worker tries to help, the person reacts strongly, and the story quickly becomes “they were being difficult”.
01:15 - Why personal care can feel like a threatHow washing, changing, medication and support can trigger fear, vulnerability, sensory discomfort, embarrassment, trauma, pride or a loss of autonomy.
02:58 - The 6 Cs: a practical framework for understanding refusalAndy introduces comfort, consistency, connection, choice, competency and challenge as a real-time care tool.
03:10 - ComfortIs the person in pain, overloaded, disoriented, tired or physically uncomfortable?
03:32 - ConsistencyWhy different staff doing the same task in different ways can increase distress - and why teams need better shared data, not just opinions.
05:55 - Connection before solutionWhy going in just to do the task often fails - and why relationship, rapport and human connection matter first.
07:02 - Choice, competency and challengeHow offering real choices, preserving independence and recognising fluctuating ability can reduce resistance and protect dignity.
09:19 - A better practical approach to refusalSoftening the approach, offering acceptable options, protecting dignity and pacing support more carefully.
11:04 - If they escalate, do not double downWhy pausing, stepping back and lowering the demand is often safer and more effective than pushing harder.
12:52 - Refusal is dataWhether in adult care, dementia support, parenting or education, refusal should be treated as information - not automatically as defiance.
Resources mentioned
Able Training - behaviour management, care training and practical support for professionals and servicesable-training.co.uk/podcast
Targeting the Positive with Behaviours That Challenge by Andy BakerAndy refers to principles from his book throughout the episode.
The Adaptive Caregiver Model: Walking With, Not Ahead: A Practical Guide to Dementia Care That Adapts to the Person, Not the Diagnosishttps://www.amazon.co.uk/Adaptive-Caregiver-Model-Practical-Diagnosis/dp/1918283060
Able links
Website: able-training.co.uk/podcastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/able-training-ltd-/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/AbleTrainingTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@abletocarepodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@abletocarepodcast
Final reflection
If someone refuses personal care, medication or support, it is easy to focus on the task and miss the message. But behaviour is often the clearest communication a distressed person has. When we slow down, get curious and ask what has made this feel threatening, we give ourselves a better chance of responding with dignity, compassion and skill.
If this episode helped, please like, follow, share or comment so more caregivers, parents, teachers and support staff can access the conversation.

In Part 2 of this two-part conversation, Andy Baker continues his discussion with Rhiannon Hughes, exploring how her lived experience in care now shapes the way she recruits staff for children’s homes - and why that matters so much. Rhiannon shares what she looks for beyond a CV, the difference between an adult who simply works in a children’s home and one who genuinely changes a child’s life, and why consistency, emotional steadiness and therapeutic care matter more than ever. This episode will be especially valuable for residential childcare staff, managers, foster carers, social care leaders, and anyone interested in trauma-informed practice, workforce development and improving outcomes for children in care.
In this episode, we explore:
What good staffing really looks like in children’s homes
Why connection matters more than simply covering shifts
The traits Rhiannon looks for when recruiting staff
Why some adults build trust and others lose it quickly
How lived experience can shape better leadership in children’s care
Rhiannon’s vision for opening her own children’s homes
Three key messages from this episode:
Children’s homes need adults who do not take behaviour personally and who can stay emotionally steady when children are pushing them away.
Recruitment in residential childcare should not just be about filling vacancies - it should be about finding adults who can build trust, safety and consistency.
Real care means helping children build independence, confidence and practical life skills - not just supervising them through the day.
Timestamps / Chapters:24:20 - Part 2 begins: from lived experience to purposeful recruitment24:20 - What Rhiannon looks for beyond a CV25:39 - The difference between an adult who works in care and one who changes lives26:49 - Why children who reject love often need it most27:16 - Being the eldest sibling and carrying responsibility early28:00 - Supporting her sister through homelessness and addiction36:47 - Why Rhiannon wants to open her own children’s homes42:52 - What she would do differently in children’s residential care47:18 - Why care leavers should be encouraged back into the sector47:51 - The one non-negotiable value she would build into her home48:54 - Her message for young people who feel unwanted or unsafe
Why listen to this episode:This episode is a powerful reminder that staffing is never just a numbers issue. In children’s homes, the right adult can change everything. Rhiannon brings a perspective that combines lived experience, care sector insight and a clear vision for doing things better. If you care about therapeutic care, stable teams, trauma-informed practice and building homes where children feel safe, seen and supported, this episode will give you plenty to reflect on.
Resources mentioned / useful links:
Rhiannon Hughes LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rhiannon-hughes-a85469217?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app
Residential Recruitment: http://www.residentialrecruitment.co.uk
Contact Rhiannon: Rhiannon@residentialrecruitment.co.uk
Follow Able / Able to Care:
Website: https://able-training.co.uk/podcast
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/able-training-ltd-/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@abletocarepodcast
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@abletocarepodcast
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/AbleTraining

In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Andy Baker speaks with Rhiannon Hughes about her lived experience of growing up in care in both the UK and Spain, being separated from siblings, surviving instability, and carrying adult responsibilities from a very young age. Rhiannon shares what care felt like from the inside, what she needed most from the adults around her, and how trauma, inconsistency and loss shaped her journey. This episode will resonate with paid and unpaid caregivers, teachers, foster carers, parents and anyone supporting children with trauma, attachment needs or care experience. It is an honest, moving conversation about grief, survival, resilience and why the right adult relationships matter so much.
In this episode, we explore:
What it felt like to enter care as a child
The impact of separation from siblings and repeated disruption
Differences between care experiences in the UK and Spain
What children in care really need from adults around them
How trauma, survival mode and responsibility shape identity
Rhiannon’s powerful story of helping her sister out of homelessness and addiction
Three key messages from this episode:
Children in care do not just need placements - they need consistency, patience and adults who keep showing up.
Trauma can make children highly alert to people, threat and instability, so relationships must feel safe before they can feel meaningful.
Lived experience can become a source of strength, empathy and purpose - but it often comes at a significant emotional cost.
Timestamps / Chapters:00:00 - Introduction and why this conversation matters00:32 - Entering care at six years old due to abuse and neglect02:15 - Foster care, children’s homes and sibling separation04:01 - Moving to Spain and re-entering care overseas05:19 - The grief of losing parents, home, siblings and safety06:24 - What Rhiannon needed most from adults: consistency and patience09:30 - The difference between care in Spain and the UK12:13 - What resilience really cost her15:49 - Leaving care, homelessness and falling through the gaps19:16 - Finding purpose in lived experience and moving into care recruitment23:42 - Why connection and consistency matter more than just filling staff gaps
Why listen to this episode:If you work with children in care, support care-experienced young people, or want to better understand trauma from the inside out, this episode is essential listening. Rhiannon’s story is raw, honest and deeply human. It offers a powerful reminder that behind every behaviour is a history, behind every coping strategy is a survival story, and behind every “difficult” young person is often a child who has had to grow up far too soon.
Resources mentioned / useful links:
Rhiannon Hughes LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rhiannon-hughes-a85469217?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app
Residential Recruitment: http://www.residentialrecruitment.co.uk
Contact Rhiannon: Rhiannon@residentialrecruitment.co.uk
Follow Able / Able to Care:
Website: https://able-training.co.uk/podcast
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/able-training-ltd-/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@abletocarepodcast
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@abletocarepodcast
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/AbleTraining
Coming next:Part 2 is released next Tuesday, where the conversation shifts into staffing, recruitment, children’s homes, therapeutic care, and what truly makes an adult change a child’s life.

Phones, screens, devices and social media are now part of everyday life for children and young people - but the arguments, sleep disruption, emotional fallouts and power struggles that come with them are leaving many parents, carers and professionals unsure what to do next. In this solo episode, Andy Baker explores why simply taking a phone away might bring short-term compliance but can also create long-term resentment, covert behaviour and bigger escalations. Instead of asking only how to stop screen use, Andy unpacks what the phone may actually be doing for a young person - whether that is offering connection, comfort, control, competence, distraction or dopamine regulation - and why that matters if we want to create real change. This episode will be especially useful for paid and unpaid caregivers, teachers, support staff and parents who want a more thoughtful, practical and trauma-informed way of managing screen-related behaviour.
In this episode, Andy covers:
Why the idea that “control equals safety” often backfires
The difference between a design problem and a parenting problem
Why blanket bans and fear-based responses rarely teach real regulation
What phones may be doing for a child or young person emotionally
How to replace power struggles with collaborative boundaries
Why support, planning and alternatives work better than punishment alone
Three key messages
1. The phone is often not the real problemA device may be meeting needs around connection, control, comfort, boredom relief, competence or anxiety management. If we only remove the phone without understanding its function, we usually create a bigger battle rather than a better outcome.
2. Punishment may stop the behaviour briefly, but it rarely teaches regulationTaking a phone away can produce short-term compliance, but it can also increase resentment, secrecy, escalation and rebellion if nothing healthier is put in its place.
3. Better boundaries are built through calm planning, collaboration and repairAndy shares a more effective route: agree boundaries when calm, offer choices, make expectations measurable, and plan for slip-ups so that responsibility grows instead of conflict.
Why listen to this episode?
If you support a child or young person who becomes dysregulated around phones, social media, gaming or screen time, this episode will help you think more clearly and respond more effectively. Rather than relying on threats, bans or constant arguments, Andy offers a more nuanced way of understanding behaviour that fits real family life, care settings and educational environments. It is a practical listen for anyone trying to balance healthy boundaries with empathy, emotional safety and long-term skill building.
Timestamps / Chapter markers
00:00 Why taking a phone away can create more problems than it solves00:21 Phones, screens, social media and the power struggles around them00:58 Why this is not just a parenting issue, but also a design issue01:35 The need for nuance - not every screen is harmful in the same way02:29 Why blanket bans often increase desire rather than teach regulation03:30 Andy’s free family commitment tool for safer screen use at home04:32 How devices have become the modern threat, bribe and power lever05:05 A real-life scenario: phone use, poor sleep and escalating conflict06:05 Why the reaction does not always justify the trigger06:23 What function the phone may be serving for a young person07:29 Dopamine, distraction and why devices can feel hard to regulate08:22 Why removing the strategy without replacing the need does not work09:00 The key needs to explore: connection, control, comfort, competence and challenge10:11 Practical strategies: reduce the need, offer alternatives and teach better regulation12:11 A better approach: agree boundaries when calm13:00 Give structured choices rather than forcing compliance14:11 Make expectations clear and measurable14:39 Plan for slip-ups and return to repair, not punishment15:57 Free resource: Home Electronics Plan and Family Commitment Tool16:33 Final reflections and takeaway message
Resources mentioned
Free resource from Andy BakerHome Electronics Plan and Family Commitment Tool
Able Training websiteable-training.co.uk/podcast
Andy’s bookTargeting the Positive with Behaviours That Challenge(Referenced as part of Andy’s wider behaviour framework and approach.)
Follow Able
Website: able-training.co.uk/podcastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/able-training-ltd-/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/AbleTrainingTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@abletocarepodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@abletocarepodcast
If you’ve ever found yourself in a stand-off over a phone, this episode will help you step back, understand what is really going on, and build a more thoughtful plan that supports regulation, safety and healthier long-term habits.